Need help - timing belt

[Nero]

Hiya everyone,

it's been a long time since I last posted on the forum but I've been checking in from time to time what'ya been doing. Before I'm gonna do anything to my D14A3 engine I wanted to change all the neccesary service bits - water pump, tensioner, sparks, distributor cap, rotor,.....cause the car just hit 100k km.

Everything went as it should except the for the timing belt. Before I write any further I hope this is the right area for this post.

So here we go. The part I hate the most is this - a friend helped me with this and the removed the plastic covers before I could see how the timing was set before we removed the timing belt -> a stupid thing that I plan to never let it happen again arggh

So I changed the water pump and tensioner and positioned the new tensioner in the lowest possible position (so I would have enough slack to put the timing belt on). I aligned the 7 o'clock pointer to the arrow on the cover like in this pic ->



I used a piece of paper and put it on the mark (line) on the camshaft pulley and turned the pully until it aligned with the peak point of the arrow on the plastic cover. This was for the 7 o'clock pointer. Then I checked the 9 and 3 o'clock pointer with a mirror and actually they are aligned with the head. The pointer on the plastic cover on the side are a bit off but reading the Honda manual the 3 and 9 o'clock pointer should be level with the surface of the head. Right?

So the camshaft sprocket was aligned and I put on the lower plastic and bolted it on so it wouldn't move and stay in the same place all the time. Then I put on the pulley and turned the crankshaft until the white mark on the pulley aligned with the "pointer" on the lower plastic cover which I put on moments before. So timing all done -> according to Honda manual and Haynes. The only problem is I can't get the timing belt on O_o

I did it just like Honda states to do it - first over the crankshaft sprocket - tight, then over the tensioner, over the water pump and then over the camshaft sprocket and it just won't go on. When I tension, just a bit, the slack side (the one from the crank sprocket to the cam sprocket - the long side) and pull a bit on the tension side it still won't go on. It's off by half a tooth or so :/

It only will go on if I pull so hard that the crank moves and the timing is off or it'll go on only so that the slack side is really slacky and when I tension the belt the alignment is off again. Really busting my balls with this and really angry with myself that I didn't look how the timing was before I removed the old timing belt.

I searched the interner for a solution but on some websites (eHow and sh#$t) it's described easier than taking a du**. Finally watched some videos on youtube just to find out that everytime someone is putting on the timing belt the video flashes and it's already on.

The only usable link I found until now is this -> http://www.hondafan.ro/forum/showthread ... ping-heads

Bringing me to you and asking for help. Especially this was interesting ->

Looking closer to the cam gear when mounted you will see it is impossible to align the crank at TDC and the cam at the 3 or 9 O’clock marks.

Could someone please help me with this?

Thanks!

[Dodo Bizar]

Hey man, I'll try to keep it simple. Once you get the hang of it, you'll see it is easy. On the forum location, I would move it probably to reliability/problems, but will not move it for now so I am sure you first get the answers.

About the last statement about 3 and 9 o'clock. It is right! You can't get those aligned. We (on normal D14A3/A4, but I have seen one exception I still can't get my head around) can only align the 7 o'clock mark. The 3 and 9 only work on other engine deck heights, its just that honda made one piece for the plastic cover and one piece for the pulley that you get both methods.

So thats it, only get the 7 mark.

Now when mounting the belt, it is really difficult (if not impossible) to see if the crank is on its mark without mounting the cover and crank pulley. I always put the cover on and the pulley loosely to get it right and then keep it loose in case of emergencies.... falling bolts etc.

But you keep the tensioner loose, you can not mount it with any tension, impossible. Just get the bolt close to tightening, so it moves gentle and does not skew. Make sure the spring is mounted correctly and that the spring is not rusty, I've seen springs that were not springy at all when too rusty, they just elongate and never retract.

Ok, doing so just mount the belt. Then check if it is on the right tooth. I always turn the crankshaft so that the cam shaft makes a complete revolution. After one rev you should check if the 7 o'clock and crank still are aligned properly. If not, move the belt up one position, should be pretty easy to do with the tensioner still loose.

I always applaud myself (you should do that to from time to time!) when I get it first time right. But I've had belts that took me 3 attempts before its on, frustrating.

Now getting the thing tensioned properly. From the 7 o'clock position, slowly turn the crank so that you move 3 teeth. This is the Honda manual description and the reason is: you'll get maximum tension now on the belt on the loaded side. On the loose side the slack is maximum, the tensioner is pulled in the belt by the spring. Now tighten the tensioner.

That should do the trick, now check again if everything lines up and finish.

Hope my elaborate description can help you getting the job done, if any thins remains let me know. I should put this on my site.... something for the work in progress section.

[Nero]

Great info! Details, experience,.... - love it! Thanks.

Now to clear some other things up. Let's first do the spring and how it should be mounted.



Red = on the pivot point on the engine block
Green = tensioner

Or is it the other way around?

Next step -> how is it turned?

Like this ->


Or ->


Now let's look at the timing. This should be piston no.1 in TDC ->


The only thing I think I did wrong was this ->


Should the 7 o'clock mark be on the yellow circle? I tried to set it to the top of the "arrow" on the plastic cover but if I do it like this the belt won't go on. Then, yesterday, I looked at this picture more closely ->


-> and saw that the arrow points at the start of the plastic cover. I had some problem from where to look at the 7 o'clock mark so it would line up with the tip of the arrow and it never "felt" right. Just got a huntch that if I move it back a bit so it'll line up like in your pic I'd had better chances to put the belt on.

Just brainstorming here thou....can't wait for your reply and btw you can use my pics if you want to do a DIY

[Nero]

More news

If my lower marks line up -> TDC on the crank-pulley and my upper mark is like this ->


Then the long side of the belt is like this ->


Toooooo slack and when I tension it the crank moves way pass the TDC mark

The closest I got, tensioned, was this with the crank-pulley on the white (TDC) mark ->


This timing belt is really mind-fu**** me. Help

[mynameisowen]

Great pics man, wish I could help

[Dodo Bizar]

First of all, I think its on the good position right now.

About the spring, I have no idea myself, I usually don't bother, the spring should move freely, that is all, and it should stay on safely, but I think that is covered n both positions. The force will not change.

About the 7 o'clock mark. My picture is low resolution. That's just what it is. Don't try to see details I didn't mean to be . Your first idea was the right one, its an arrow. So forget about the yellow circle part please.

Then the result... I've seen before it does not line up well. No idea how its possible. Worst case I had was a guy with a car with practically half a tooth diff. It might actually be a bit of play in the gear mounted on the crank... I've got a D15B7 with a crooked version which was forced of by half a tooth on crank. Also normally there is some play on it, it might be enough to cause this. But for your case, you can;t make it better.... changing can only be done with an exact tooth, nothing in between. Going one tooth retard really is wrong, you're way more of the arrow then now. So keep it the way it is. If the crank can be turned manually without any thing touching you're good. And to be honest, the car will run even with a tooth wrong. I've had it....

[Nero]

TatatatAAAAAAm


Did make me some extra work but at first I didn't fit the upper plastic cover so I could see what was going on with the timing belt. Warmed the car up so the bubbles went out of the coolant and after the fan kickey in 3 to 4 times I checked the base timing and it's the same as it was. The car drives like before, maybe a bit better.

Thanks for your help Dodo

[mynameisowen]

Great news, remember if you have any advice for people who will try this in the future pass it on so it may help others

[Dodo Bizar]

Has become a nice write up this way