D14 on Lotus Engine Simulator [Urgent]

[Law_]

Guys, can you confirm the value for D14 stock head chamber volume?
Also this values are correct right?
I'm using them to modulate on Lotus engine Simulator at the university. That way later i can share a model with you guys and simply test mods in the computer. Lotus engine Simulator is really accurate.

Center to center length (rod length) : 138 mm
Big-end bore (Rod bearing size) : 43 mm
Crank bearing size : 45mm
Compression height : 29.5 mm
Piston dish of the P3Y (D14a4/a3 piston) is -5.4cc.
Deck height is 207
Piston to deck height = 0
Pistons Pin is 19mm
Stock D14 Head Gasket is 0.028" compressed..
TB is 55 mm
Exhaust manifold is 45mm on the exit


Combustion Chamber volume : 34.6cc (?)

Other things i need:
Measuring the capacity of Resonator box
Measure the smaller diameter on inlet port
Measure the intake manifold (OEM) internal diameter and wall thickness
Measure the intake manifold plenum diameter
Measure the intake manifold plenum height
Measure the exhaust manifold diameter and wall thickness
Measure exhaust pipe diameter and wall thickness
Piston Mass (kg)
Spindle Dia. (mm) (of the TB)
Lenght of Intake manifold runners
Piston Pin Off-Set (mm)


and others...
anyone who knows something about this please tell me.
i will disassemble the engine soon but desperatly need to modulate know !
Cheers

[hondaNickx]

Guys, can you confirm the value for D14 stock head chamber volume?
Also this values are correct right?
I'm using them to modulate on Lotus engine Simulator at the university. That way later i can share a model with you guys and simply test mods in the computer. Lotus engine Simulator is really accurate.

Center to center length (rod length) : 138 mm
Big-end bore (Rod bearing size) : 43 mm
Crank bearing size : 45mm
Compression height : 29.5 mm
Dish shape estimated between -2.8 and -3.3 cc
Piston dish of the P3Y (D14a4/a3 piston) is -5.4cc.
Deck height is 207
Piston to deck height = 0
Pistons Pin is 19mm
Stock D14 Head Gasket is 0.028" compressed..

Combustion Chamber volume : 34.6cc (?)
TB is 56 mm right? TB is 55mm
Disc shape and piston dish is the same thing?It's Dish not disc .Pistons either got a Dish like the plate where people eat their soup out (dish shape) or a Dome like a mountain
Exhaust manifold is 56mmStock Exit diameter 45mm ID,almost all the aftermarket manifolds for D-series are 47mm ID

Other things i need:
Measuring the capacity of Resonator box
Measure the smaller diameter on inlet port
Measure the intake manifold (OEM) internal diameter and wall thickness
Measure the intake manifold plenum diameter
Measure the intake manifold plenum height
Measure the exhaust manifold diameter and wall thickness
Measure exhaust pipe diameter and wall thickness
Piston Mass (kg)
Spindle Dia. (mm) (of the TB)
Lenght of Intake manifold runners
Piston Pin Off-Set (mm)


and others...
anyone who knows something about this please tell me.
i will disassemble the engine soon but desperatly need to modulate know !
Cheers

I can see why this thing is very accurate ,you're asking a lot of things that never has been measured yet.

[Law_]

Thats the start of the modulation.
Then we can simulate other diameters and forms in the engine and see the results. the program is very accurate !

So, if i understood well, d14a4 piston has a -5.4cc dish

I can promise you guys, that i will modulate all the engine on lotus until perfection. it is a main goal of one work in the Msc. But i will need some measurements from you ! the others, i will do myself. well, the list is that one, who knows something more please HELP x) this can be good for all of us !

[saxophonias]

very impressive!i could do some measurements my self as for the airbox and intake manifold which are lying around at my garage but i would need to know if you are referring to the d14a4 intake etc and what and how exactly you would want things to be measured so as to be accurate. a photo would be very helpful

[Law_]

Yes, just referring to D14a4 engine stock.
Later, i will do several versions of the file, adding intake manifold, exhaust manifold, Y8 head etc... will be tuff, but doable !

Anyone who wants can measure this stuff but today i will do major work on this measurements.
Found this specs for D14 cam :
0.296" Intake lift, adv dur 224, at 0.040" 196
0.290 Exh lift, adv dur 226, at 0.040" 192
anyone can confirm?
Anyone has this diagram showing valve overlap and so?

i will also have the opportunity to measure the car in a MAHA dyno at the university =) Wait for news...

http://www.filestube.com/b56d88612402a6 ... 06f-b.html

for Lotus =)
Cheers

[Dodo Bizar]

Whoooaaaa cool man. I should dig into that Lotus sim. myself. Ehm dish is -5.4cc. The other values where estimates from me I suppose which were corrected by Nick to be the -5.4.

Currently I am disassembling the inlet parts of the stock D14A4... I see what I can do. Yup...

[Dodo Bizar]

Ok, here is a set of crappy estimates from what I got lying around. But its a start:

Capacity resonator box. My estimate is 6.5 litre, but can be off 0.5 l.

Smaller diameter inlet port... ehm what do you mean? Diameter just before the valve? Don't have it, but if you mean the flange where the IM and head meet I'd say 38 mm by 24 mm (estrimated since I ignore the injector gap). Probably NOT what you ask for?

IM internal diameter, not a clue. Outside looks around 39mm, minus twice the typical thickness for aluminium castings?

IM plenum size... well this one is not your typical plenum. It HAS no diameter since it is more the shape of a square. I measured the depth with TB mounted on it. Was 15.5 cm with the TB covering around 7.5 cm. Classically I would consider the remaining 8 cm the 'diameter'. The 'height seems around 14 cm including twice the wall thickness. So 13.5 cm is most likely.

Exhaust manifold same problems measuring stuff. Outside diameter is 35mm on the smallest part just before the collector. Minus twice typical diameter for cast iron. The entrance measures 39 by 30 mm on the inside.

Exhaust pipe... well I only could measure the downpipe a bit. The midpipe itself will be in my hands next weekend if all goes well. But I expect it being a cheap replacement which often are different sized from OEM spec since those manufactures sometimes seem to pick the cheapest tubing in approximatly the same size... a well the downpipe is 51 mm on the outside, and the exit measures 39 mm on the inside, but it is double walled right there and I don't now if it is wider closer to the engine.

TB spindle diameter... uh I guess 5 mm on the flattened part. You mean the little axes which mounts the valve don't you? Since with spindle I am thinking of the diameter of the thingy which holds the throttle cable in place. Which does not make a difference in power or so...

Now for the last and most interesting thing I could measure for you. The intake runner lengths. Well since we have the freaky plenum we also have freaky runners. The inside runners are way shorter than the outside. About 20-21 cm to 25-27 cm. Hard to tell since I can't really judge the entrace in the plenum or measure the centreline with any accuracy. Just tried to guess with a taylor measuring tape.

Well, hope to be of any help to you! On a later time I will try to get Lotus working myself if possible (is it freeware or anything?)

[Law_]

Hi Dodo ! Thanks for all the measurings. i guess the most important one you could do is piston weight and rod weight since i dont have them diassembled Piston Pin offset anyone?

i've measured some stuff in the engine too.
This week i will publish a list of every part i've already have for you guys
What i meant for Smaller Inlet Port diameter is this :
In the engine head, before the valve seat, the "runner" has a variable diameter. i want to know the smaller one. It has a major importance in engine performance.

First run of the program i got 93hp at 6000rpm and 120Nm at 4000. not far from truth.
I will model the combustion chamber on Solid works (y7 one) to calculate something i dont recall. Spindle diameter was the plate that holds TB valve yes.
Also measured it the other part i call TB rotor.
Lotus is, lets say, freewarable with a license file

Whats the tipical cast iron diameters?
and aluminium ones?

Cheers

[hondaNickx]

You can measure the volume of the intake manifold by either using fine sand or some sort of water and pour it into the manifold.
First pouring down the plenum and see if it all touches the runners slightly.
Then filling each runner and writing down each volume .
Edelbrock runners are 9" in length and i think oem honda runners are not far from those i'm guessing 10"-11"

[Law_]

will definitly sort out all of this, this week.
can you tell me Nickx, d16y7 head is equal to d14 one, maybe in exception of the cam right?
have a d16y7 cam to measure. and i have posted here cam specs for d14 cam. measured by bisimoto. can anyone translate what i've posted about the cam?

Quoting:

0.296" Intake lift, adv dur 224, at 0.040" 196
0.290" Exhaust lift, adv dur 226, at 0.040" 192

Sorry still learning some stuff !
cheers

This are Lotus Measurings that i have now (with your help) and the ones i need also:

LOTUS MEASURINGS

Intake pipe - Length from beginning till resonator -
Intake pipe - Diameter -
Intake pipe - Wall thickness -

Resonator - Volume – 6.5Litres
Resonator - Surface area – 21 m2

Intake pipe - Length from resonator to Filter Housing -
Intake pipe - Diameter -
Intake pipe - Wall thickness -

Filter Housing - Volume -
Filter Housing - Surface area -

Throttle Body - Discharge CF - 1
Throttle Body - Throttle diameter – 55 mm
Throttle Body - Closed angle – 2 Degree
Throttle Body - Throttle angle – 90 Degree
Throttle Body - Spindle diameter - 5 mm

Intake manifold - Plenum (approx. to a cube) depth - 13.5 mm
Intake manifold - Plenum (approx. to a cube) length - 8 mm
Intake manifold - Runner length from plenum to head - 20-21 cm and 25-27 cm
Intake manifold - Inner Diameter (mm) - 37.5 mm
Intake manifold - Inner Diameter in the connection (mm) - 38 x 24 mm
Intake manifold - Wall Thickness (mm) - 2.5 mm

Engine Head - Y tipe Port – Start Diameter -
Engine Head - Y tipe Port – End Diameter -
Engine Head - Y tipe Port – Smaller Diameter -
Engine Head - Y tipe Port – Lenght -
Engine Head - Y tipe Port – Wall thickness -
Engine Head - Valve Throat Diameter (mm) -
Engine Head - Valve Open (deg) -
Engine Head - Valve Close (deg) -
Engine Head - Dwell at Maximum (deg) – 0ºC
Engine Head - Max Lift (mm) -
Engine Head - Maximum Opening Point (deg) -
Engine Head - Opening and Closing Lash (mm) -

Cylinder - Bore and Stroke - 75x79 mm
Cylinder - Con-rod Length (mm) - 138 mm
Cylinder - Compression ratio - 9.2
Cylinder - Pin Off-Set (mm) -
Cylinder - Cyl Axis Angle (deg) -
Cylinder - Piston Mass (kg) -
Cylinder - Con-Rod Rot Mass (kg) -
Cylinder - Con-Rod Recip Mass (kg) -
Cylinder - Con-Rod Inertia (kg.m²) -

Engine Head - Y tipe Port – Start Diameter -
Engine Head - Y tipe Port – End Diameter -
Engine Head - Y tipe Port – Smaller Diameter -
Engine Head - Y tipe Port – Lenght -
Engine Head - Y tipe Port – Wall thickness -
Engine Head - Valve Throat Diameter (mm) -
Engine Head - Valve Open (deg) -
Engine Head - Valve Close (deg) -
Engine Head - Dwell at Maximum (deg) – 0ºC
Engine Head - Max Lift (mm) -
Engine Head - Maximum Opening Point (deg) -
Engine Head - Opening and Closing Lash (mm) -

Exhaust manifold - Runner length from head to first exhaust pipe -
Exhaust manifold - Diameter (mm) - 35mm? and 39x30 (inner)
Exhaust manifold - Wall Thickness (mm) -

Exhaust pipe - Length from head till catalyst -
Exhaust pipe - Diameter - 39 mm (inner), 51 mm (outside)
Exhaust pipe - Wall thickness -