Oil Pumps

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saxophonias
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Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:03 am

Oil Pumps

Post by saxophonias »

I think this is a useful topic. Nick informed us about the differences over d-series oil pumps and highlighted the differences and possible weaknesses of this point. Here is his post
So in most cases i would say upgrade the oil pump (ported oem d14 pump) and some ARP rod bolts in the stock rods would be fine for 200hp.
Another note the D14 uses the D16y8 oil pump ,they are almost identical except the D14 oil gear has 1 tooth more then the Y8 one.The oil passages could be improved a lot in this pump .That's the big reason why most Y blocks are failing early or getting oil .The oil pump is the worst pump of all d-series .Good thing is a D14 uses smaller bearings and those are easier lubricated then bigger bearings.Downside is they can't handle as much pressure as bigger bearings.

FYI here are the specs i allready got ,i still need to get the D14 oil pump specs.

D15 Oil pump flows 45L/min @ 6300rpm
D16y8 Oil pump flows 33,4L /min@ 6800rpm
D16z6/D16a9 Oil pump flows 63 L/min @ 6800rpm

To continue with this, i have been thinking of the dangers involved when revving 1000rpms more with stock oil pump. The capacity of the pump to maintain a good oil pressure and oil flow will decline right? I think this is quite dangerous. Have you considered that?



15100-P2A-A01 This is the code of the oil pump i found meant for these models
Honda Civic Del Sol D13B D14A4 D15Z4 D15Z5 D15Z6 D15Z9 D16Y8 D16Y7 D16Y6 D16Y5 D16Y4 D16A D15B D16B1 D16B5 SOHC & SOHC VTEC Oil Pump from Honda Motors, USA. This oil pump will fit 96-00 Honda Civic EX DX CX LX GX, 96-97 Honda Del Sol 1.6 S 1.6 Si, 96-00 JDM Honda Civic Mi ML RTi D15B D16A SOHC. This oil pump does NOT fit the D15Z7 and JDM D15B 3-stage SOHC VTEC.

hondaNickx
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Location: Belgium

Re: Oil Pumps

Post by hondaNickx »

I've seen D14 turbo engines with stock engine holding out on 180 hp at the crank without problems.And a Dodo himself in a N/A version at 8000rpm without problems too.I'm worried myself it's kinda on the limit ,but you can port the stock pump yourself.It's not that difficult to do ,i would just improve flow and not touch the pressure spring it increases allready.I'm going to quote a very good post from "Rushi" from OneCamOnly,he has ported his y8 pump in a very good way .

rushi wrote:
"As I promised, this is a sequel to my http://onecamonly.com/showthread.php?t=1854 oilpump info thread.

I describe whats wrong with stock oilpump(s) and what I did to my P7A D16Y8 oilpump to perform strong in my new D15 setup. I won't go into cranktrigger stuff this time, its been covered in info thread and others before.

So, lets take a few looks at the stock pump and whats inside it.

Image

This is not a very good picture, but pretty much the only one I took that describes the problem areas inside the pump. Take a look at the oil exit. There's some very sharp edges and lips where the exit bore meets the rotor chamber. These form some serious resistance to smooth and efficient flow, and should be removed and radiused. Intake port is not well visible, but its only a drilled 14mm hole coming into rotor chamber and has very sharp 90-degree edge around it. Serious radiusing needed here too.

This is how they do look after the needed modifications. I also drilled the intake passage with 15.5mm bit (~16mm bore) and the exit passage with 13mm (~13.5mm bore) to increase the CSA a bit.

Image
Image

Then comes the more serious (and difficult) thing to make better and with my very limited knowledge on pumps, this is the biggest culprit why Y8 pump flows ~25% less than older pumps. The exit from pump housing to block is plain horrible. Passage expands abruptly into much bigger CSA/volume chamber that only has a tiny 12mm hole again with very sharp 90-degree edges. Outlet passage in these pics is already drilled 2mm larger, it was 11.5mm, now 13.5mm.

Image
Image

Here the exit port is grinded close to final shape and Allen plug torqued down with Loctite 243. You can see that I punched a lot of small spots into casting and grinded some "pockets" to get a better bonding and for a mechanical lock for the Devcon I used to fill the port curve.

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Here is the "magic stuff" to shape the pump exit, and how it looks after applying it into pump housing. I mixed it way too much, so I also plugged the Allen plug so noone won't ever try to break this up..

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At this point with plenty of Devcon mixed up its right time to fill the dipstick hole in Y8 pump housing, since it's going to be used with D15B2 that has dipstick in the block.

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Image

Then the final looks about how the pump exit looks when its grinded/sanded into proper shape. I spend a lots of time and effort to shape the exit so it aims the flow as directly into block passage as possible. Tested with pressurized air, and the flow is very nice and straight now. This is what we call efficiency, flow doesn't need to do (much) work to turn into right direction, and this is where the power comes from!

Image

Last thing while assembling the pump, I replaced stock 16mm Phillips-headed screws with 4mm longer Allen-headed ISO 10.9-grade screws. Screw holes are deep enough, but need to be tapped a couple of millimeters deeper. Reason I did this is that Allen-headed screws are MUCH nicer and precise to torque down than Phillips-ones.

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Finalized product:

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Enjoy. Always use extreme cleanliness when assembling the oilpump and applying Devcon, use proper solvents and follow the Devcon instructions for proper bonding!

This is the oilpump modification upto my best current knowledge. There might be some other internal tricks that could be done, perhaps with Devcon (like shallower tapers inside, similar to stock PLC oilpump) but like I told, I don't know much about pumps (yet). Increasing the pressure with washers/shims under the spring is unnecessary, these mods will already increase the volume flow a lot and with restrictions (bearings and relief valve) staying the same, pressure will be high enough."
Quote from Endyn:"The combustion chamber is a better shape than the DOHC.So don't chunk those 1.6 SOHC engines, they can make really good power. For a pure performance application, regardless of application, I'd choose the SOHC. No bull!"

Law_
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Re: Oil Pumps

Post by Law_ »

very good post ! Thank you both !
very necessary topic !

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Dodo Bizar
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Re: Oil Pumps

Post by Dodo Bizar »

Wow what a work went into that... but if it is all you got to improve the oil pumpyou take it. Really good DIY.

As for my engine... probably 8100 rpm I take is really tricky indeed. But since I own the sucker since km 18 (those 18 kms where driven on it by the dealership, I am actually first owner of the EJ9), I gave it always on time its oil service. So I hope that the quality of its lubricant through out the years keeps it in one piece.

But I never gave this topic that much consideration. I actually did not increase rpm since I am afraid the rods will just fail. Since I am planning and revving further in the future and knowing this I will probably first improve my oil pump as well before going further. Thnx for the info.

Got a spare D14 in the shed, bearings worn out so I will not trust the oil pump, but I can always check and at least learn from that one. Really like the idea of copying this bloke :D .

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mynameisowen
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Re: Oil Pumps

Post by mynameisowen »

Yea he did some good work, i dont think change of screws was absolutely necessary though!!
1996 EJ9 Civic
1998 BB8 Prelude Motegi VTi
1998, B16A2 EK4 Civic VTi

Aims:
EJ9 - Now my GF's car.
BB8 - Rebuild after crash damage to front end.
EK4 - Daily driver. Strip and track prep once prelude project complete

boggs
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Re: Oil Pumps

Post by boggs »

Is a oil pump from a D16Z6 a straight fit/swap into a D14?

boggs
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:19 pm

Re: Oil Pumps

Post by boggs »

Meant to ask does the dip stick in a d14 go through the oil pump like in a D16y8?

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